Nordpool price integration

[Kripits]

Hi, developers!
Have you considered to add Northern Europe's energy price listing Nordpool?
I have managed somehow to make it work with some helper sensors, but it's not direct clean integration. Nordpool has a great API

Thank you for your work

[gcoan]

In general no, there isn't plans to extend Predbat to directly support Nordpool energy rates.

Predbat is used by a very wide range of users in lots of different countries with lots of different energy suppliers so it would be a never-ending task to add direct energy rate support.

Instead Predbat supports energy rates converted to one of the existing formats it supports (such as Octopus) or raw spot rate format - see https://springfall2008.github.io/batpred/energy-rates/#other-energy-spot-rate-sensor-integrations

If you have a worked example of how to convert Nordpool rates into Predbat then please do contribute a PR to the documentation to add this so others can reuse it

[Kripits]

Thanks, that makes sense.

I already have a working Nordpool → Predbat setup in Home Assistant, so I can share the approach we ended up using.

The flow is basically:

Nordpool integration
→ sensor.nordpool_energyprices
→ Home Assistant template/package that converts the Nordpool prices
→ sensor.predbat_nordpool_import_rates / sensor.predbat_nordpool_export_rates
→ Predbat via metric_octopus_import / metric_octopus_export

In my case Nordpool provides 15-minute prices, so the template builds raw_today and raw_tomorrow arrays in a format Predbat can consume.

For the import price I also add the additional grid/supplier costs using a Home Assistant helper, so the value used by Predbat represents the actual import cost rather than only the Nordpool spot price.

The logic is approximately:

Nordpool spot price + additional import costs = Predbat import price

For export I use a separate helper for the export adjustment/fee and convert the value accordingly. I also clamp negative export prices to zero in my current setup.

Predbat then only needs:

metric_octopus_import: sensor.predbat_nordpool_import_rates
metric_octopus_export: sensor.predbat_nordpool_export_rates
metric_standing_charge: 0

plan_interval_minutes: 15

The conversion itself is currently in a Home Assistant package, so Predbat does not need any Nordpool-specific logic.

Does this sound like the right general approach for Predbat?

Also, is there a cleaner or more native way you would recommend structuring this setup, for example using the raw spot rate format directly instead of emulating the Octopus-style sensors?

If this approach is reasonable, I can clean up the YAML, make the configurable parts more generic, and submit a documentation PR with a complete Nordpool 15-minute pricing example.

[gcoan]

yes that approach is absolutely the right way to do it for Predbat

[MWestenberg]

Thanks, that makes sense.

I already have a working Nordpool → Predbat setup in Home Assistant, so I can share the approach we ended up using.

The flow is basically:

Nordpool integration → sensor.nordpool_energyprices → Home Assistant template/package that converts the Nordpool prices → sensor.predbat_nordpool_import_rates / sensor.predbat_nordpool_export_rates → Predbat via metric_octopus_import / metric_octopus_export

In my case Nordpool provides 15-minute prices, so the template builds raw_today and raw_tomorrow arrays in a format Predbat can consume.

For the import price I also add the additional grid/supplier costs using a Home Assistant helper, so the value used by Predbat represents the actual import cost rather than only the Nordpool spot price.

The logic is approximately:

Nordpool spot price + additional import costs = Predbat import price

For export I use a separate helper for the export adjustment/fee and convert the value accordingly. I also clamp negative export prices to zero in my current setup.

Predbat then only needs:

metric_octopus_import: sensor.predbat_nordpool_import_rates
metric_octopus_export: sensor.predbat_nordpool_export_rates
metric_standing_charge: 0

plan_interval_minutes: 15

The conversion itself is currently in a Home Assistant package, so Predbat does not need any Nordpool-specific logic.

Does this sound like the right general approach for Predbat?

Also, is there a cleaner or more native way you would recommend structuring this setup, for example using the raw spot rate format directly instead of emulating the Octopus-style sensors?

If this approach is reasonable, I can clean up the YAML, make the configurable parts more generic, and submit a documentation PR with a complete Nordpool 15-minute pricing example.

Awesome! Can you please share you’re template package and helpers? I have been trying to make this work for days now. I am struggling with the conversion of nordpool to octopus rates.

[Kripits]

Sure, here is a cleaned-up, generic version of what I use (helpers included, so it is one copy-paste file).

Requirements

• The HACS Nord Pool integration ([custom-components/nordpool](https://github.com/custom-components/nordpool)). The built-in HA "Nord Pool" integration has no raw_today / raw_tomorrow attributes, so this won't work with it as-is. Which one are you using?
• In the Nord Pool sensor config: price_in_cents: false (EUR/kWh) and leave additional_costs at its default. All extra costs are added in the template instead.
• Replace sensor.nordpool_kwh_lv_eur_3_10_021 with your own Nord Pool entity (it appears several times in the file).

Install

1. Save the file below as /config/packages/predbat_nordpool_rates.yaml.
2. In configuration.yaml make sure you have:

   homeassistant:
     packages: !include_dir_named packages

3. Restart HA, then set the helpers: import extra cost (grid + supplier, incl. VAT, EUR/kWh), export fee (EUR/kWh), the VAT % your Nord Pool sensor includes (e.g. 21), and whether to clamp negative export prices.
4. In Predbat apps.yaml:

   metric_octopus_import: sensor.predbat_nordpool_import_rates
   metric_octopus_export: sensor.predbat_nordpool_export_rates
   metric_standing_charge: 0
   plan_interval_minutes: 15

predbat_nordpool_rates.yaml

# Predbat <- Nord Pool (HACS "nordpool" integration), 15-minute prices
# Put this file in /config/packages/ and make sure configuration.yaml has:
#   homeassistant:
#     packages: !include_dir_named packages
#
# Requirements for the Nord Pool sensor (HACS custom-components/nordpool):
#   - price_in_cents: false        (prices in EUR/kWh, NOT cents)
#   - additional_costs left at its default 0 template (all extra costs are added here instead)
#   - vat: whatever your sensor uses (input_number.predbat_nordpool_vat below must match it)
#
# Change SRC in both sensors to your own Nord Pool entity id.

input_number:
  predbat_import_extra_cost:
    name: Predbat import extra cost (EUR/kWh, incl. VAT)
    min: 0
    max: 1
    step: 0.0001
    mode: box
    unit_of_measurement: EUR/kWh
  predbat_export_fee:
    name: Predbat export fee (EUR/kWh)
    min: 0
    max: 1
    step: 0.0001
    mode: box
    unit_of_measurement: EUR/kWh
  predbat_nordpool_vat:
    name: VAT included in the Nord Pool sensor (%)
    min: 0
    max: 50
    step: 0.1
    mode: box
    unit_of_measurement: "%"

input_boolean:
  predbat_export_clamp_negative:
    name: Predbat clamp negative export prices to 0

template:
  - sensor:
      - name: Predbat Nordpool import rates
        unique_id: predbat_nordpool_import_rates
        unit_of_measurement: EUR/kWh
        state_class: measurement
        availability: >
          {% set src = 'sensor.nordpool_kwh_lv_eur_3_10_021' %}
          {{ state_attr(src, 'raw_today') is not none and states(src) | is_number }}
        state: >
          {% set src = 'sensor.nordpool_kwh_lv_eur_3_10_021' %}
          {% set extra = states('input_number.predbat_import_extra_cost') | float(0) %}
          {{ (states(src) | float(0) + extra) | round(5) }}
        attributes:
          raw_today: >
            {% set src = 'sensor.nordpool_kwh_lv_eur_3_10_021' %}
            {% set extra = states('input_number.predbat_import_extra_cost') | float(0) %}
            {% set ns = namespace(out=[]) %}
            {% for p in state_attr(src, 'raw_today') or [] %}
              {% if p.value is number %}
                {% set ns.out = ns.out + [{
                  'start': as_datetime(p.start | string).isoformat(),
                  'end': as_datetime(p.end | string).isoformat(),
                  'value': (p.value + extra) | round(5)
                }] %}
              {% endif %}
            {% endfor %}
            {{ ns.out }}
          raw_tomorrow: >
            {% set src = 'sensor.nordpool_kwh_lv_eur_3_10_021' %}
            {% set extra = states('input_number.predbat_import_extra_cost') | float(0) %}
            {% set ns = namespace(out=[]) %}
            {% for p in state_attr(src, 'raw_tomorrow') or [] %}
              {% if p.value is number %}
                {% set ns.out = ns.out + [{
                  'start': as_datetime(p.start | string).isoformat(),
                  'end': as_datetime(p.end | string).isoformat(),
                  'value': (p.value + extra) | round(5)
                }] %}
              {% endif %}
            {% endfor %}
            {{ ns.out }}

      - name: Predbat Nordpool export rates
        unique_id: predbat_nordpool_export_rates
        unit_of_measurement: EUR/kWh
        state_class: measurement
        availability: >
          {% set src = 'sensor.nordpool_kwh_lv_eur_3_10_021' %}
          {{ state_attr(src, 'raw_today') is not none and states(src) | is_number }}
        state: >
          {% set src = 'sensor.nordpool_kwh_lv_eur_3_10_021' %}
          {% set vat = 1 + states('input_number.predbat_nordpool_vat') | float(0) / 100 %}
          {% set fee = states('input_number.predbat_export_fee') | float(0) %}
          {% set v = states(src) | float(0) / vat - fee %}
          {{ ([v, 0] | max if is_state('input_boolean.predbat_export_clamp_negative', 'on') else v) | round(5) }}
        attributes:
          raw_today: >
            {% set src = 'sensor.nordpool_kwh_lv_eur_3_10_021' %}
            {% set vat = 1 + states('input_number.predbat_nordpool_vat') | float(0) / 100 %}
            {% set fee = states('input_number.predbat_export_fee') | float(0) %}
            {% set clamp = is_state('input_boolean.predbat_export_clamp_negative', 'on') %}
            {% set ns = namespace(out=[]) %}
            {% for p in state_attr(src, 'raw_today') or [] %}
              {% if p.value is number %}
                {% set v = p.value / vat - fee %}
                {% set ns.out = ns.out + [{
                  'start': as_datetime(p.start | string).isoformat(),
                  'end': as_datetime(p.end | string).isoformat(),
                  'value': ([v, 0] | max if clamp else v) | round(5)
                }] %}
              {% endif %}
            {% endfor %}
            {{ ns.out }}
          raw_tomorrow: >
            {% set src = 'sensor.nordpool_kwh_lv_eur_3_10_021' %}
            {% set vat = 1 + states('input_number.predbat_nordpool_vat') | float(0) / 100 %}
            {% set fee = states('input_number.predbat_export_fee') | float(0) %}
            {% set clamp = is_state('input_boolean.predbat_export_clamp_negative', 'on') %}
            {% set ns = namespace(out=[]) %}
            {% for p in state_attr(src, 'raw_tomorrow') or [] %}
              {% if p.value is number %}
                {% set v = p.value / vat - fee %}
                {% set ns.out = ns.out + [{
                  'start': as_datetime(p.start | string).isoformat(),
                  'end': as_datetime(p.end | string).isoformat(),
                  'value': ([v, 0] | max if clamp else v) | round(5)
                }] %}
              {% endif %}
            {% endfor %}
            {{ ns.out }}

# Optional: the two sensors carry up to ~200 slots each, which exceeds the
# recorder's 16 KB attribute limit (HA logs a warning and skips storing the
# attributes). Predbat reads the live state, not history, so you can exclude
# them in configuration.yaml (add to your existing recorder: block, if any):
#
# recorder:
#   exclude:
#     entities:
#       - sensor.predbat_nordpool_import_rates
#       - sensor.predbat_nordpool_export_rates

Why this works (and the most common mistake)
Predbat doesn't need real Octopus sensors. metric_octopus_import/export accepts any sensor with raw_today / raw_tomorrow attributes containing a list of {start, end, value}. When it sees the start/end keys it multiplies value by 100 itself, so values must be in EUR/kWh, not cents. If you feed cents, every price ends up 100× too high.

How to check it

• Developer Tools → Template:
  {{ state_attr('sensor.predbat_nordpool_import_rates', 'raw_today')[:2] }}
  should show two entries with ISO times and values like 0.18.
• Predbat log: the Import rates: min ... max ... line should show cent-sized numbers (e.g. 5 to 30), not 0.05 and not 500.
• raw_tomorrow is empty until Nord Pool publishes day-ahead prices (around 14:00 CET). Predbat fills the gap by repeating today.

Notes

• Export: the template removes VAT from the Nord Pool price (price / (1 + VAT)) and subtracts the export fee. Adjust that formula if your export contract is different.
• Negative export clamp: with clamping ON, Predbat sees 0 instead of a negative price, so it won't avoid exporting at those times. With it OFF, Predbat sees the real negative price and can plan around it. I clamp in my own setup, but OFF is the more honest input if your inverter can actually limit export.
• Each sensor carries ~200 slots, which is over the recorder's 16 KB attribute limit. Optional exclusion is in the comment at the bottom of the file.
• Simpler alternative for import only: if your import price is just spot + VAT + a fixed extra, you can put the extra in the Nord Pool additional_costs template and point metric_octopus_import straight at the Nord Pool sensor, since it already exposes raw_today / raw_tomorrow in the right format. Note that additional_costs is added after VAT, so the amount must already include VAT. Export still needs the template.

Let me know if it works for you. Once it is confirmed on a second setup, I will put it into the docs PR.